all dying please help!!! - Page 6

Butcher Bob · 09-30-2011, 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bayoubear

The cfls never changed light intensity that i was aware of- if it was significant i would notice with naked eye.

Eh, likely not. Plants see the light much differently than we do...jus cuz it looks ok to us, does not necessarily means it's ok fer the plants. Jus think of folks who try them incandescent "grow lights"...they sure look bright enough, but don't work fer shit.

And as bulbs go bad, it's doin it so gradually that we can't tell day to day, until we put it up against a brand new bulb. I know guys that have grown fer decades, and they're still amazed at the increase in light every time they replace a bulb.

The testin I wuz referrin to would be much simpler than all that. More jus a validation test....plants in new environment vs a couple in the old environment. Would give ya a side-by-side comparison to see just how much things were affected. Not somethin that's necessary, more jus fer curiosity.

Bayoubear · 09-30-2011, 08:10 PM

the old setup is long gone, little bonsai is in there with a single cfl over it. if it lives, it lives, if it dies, oh well. foil wallpaper is gone as are the lighting shrouds. after talking with some of my EE buddies it looks like my waveguide analogy was pretty spot on. While ive never heard of cfls doing this to plants before till you mentioned it earlier,,, on paper it certainly makes sense and perfectly possible. If little bonsai makes it okay that would help to validate this theory.

after going over my calendar of gibberish, what all ive done, it seems to boil down to this...
I was effectively microwaving my plants. Not enough to outright kill them but enough to retard growth and stress them out to the point that when this bug hit my houseplants it was the final straw for them as well. Bonsai has spent a week in a new spot with new light and doing really well. Its back in the room under one large cfl as of today. we shall see......

hahaha the incandescent growlights, pure junk, only thing those are good for is sticking in a kids easy-bake oven.

Bayoubear · 10-03-2011, 09:53 AM

bonsai crapped out under the cfl. the week on the windowsill it went nuts, a couple days back under the cfl it stopped growing and looks like all the rest that were suffering. After all this trial and error i think its safe to say the cfls are the problem. I dont think its lack of light, if that were the case one would expect them to be leggy and pale yellow. I blame the cfl itself. Sad, as if they had worked out the cfls would be an inexpensive and convenient way to go. Was using the large ones at that and wont fit standard household lamps and lighting fixtures. Guess ive got 20 years worth of light bulbs for my garage. hahahahaha Back to tubes for the mean-time.

Butcher Bob · 10-03-2011, 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bayoubear

I dont think its lack of light, if that were the case one would expect them to be leggy and pale yellow.

Yeah, I would too, normally. I'm not sure we fully understand how the plants utilize various wave lengths, but we do know it does. So it's quite possible the plants either, lack the wave length needed fer upward growth, or are gittin an over abundance of a wave length that controls stretch (inter-node length). I understand wut yer sayin, cuz I've seen stretchy plants under incandescents b'fore, but we're seein the opposite effect....could very well be the same issue, jus different sets of wave lengths. ...jus a shot in the dark.

Bayoubear · 10-03-2011, 11:11 AM

bottom line, CFLs are bad, mmmmmkay.

i dont remember the specifics but the ones i used were the largest i could find, coils about the size of a grapefruit. i found some of the standard household sized ones in a drawer and stuck them in there too. whats about killed bonsia is a big one. They worked fine for awhile then not. Something is obviously changing either in the emitted light itself or in the ballast or even the latter causing the former.

i think we have officially passed the point of discovering causation here and in the realm of some botany masters candidate's thesis dissertation. while im sure we all are a bit curious about this the bottom line is after all the trial and error, manipulation of variables, etc etc etc its pretty clear: stick with tubes or traditional lighting schemes.

one thing about the node length hypothesis, while a perfectly valid question, the fact bonsai went from rapid growth to none and actually damaged leaves in just a couple days might lead one to suspect more is going on. back on windowsill to see if it will recover. this poor plant, its already been thru hell.

Bayoubear · 10-03-2011, 11:38 AM

the one nicknamed 'bonsai'
almost four weeks under 3 large cfls, 2 small cfls, pair of 48" tubes.
in that time plant was 3/4s inch tall, vibrant green, zero growth.

not even a week on a windowsill supplemented with one normal lamp reading light on a desk it grew to four inches tall and happy.

3 days back under one single large cfl zero growth. yellowing and damage on lower leaflets. sorry, my camera sucks, this pic is even taken in "closeup" mode.

Butcher Bob · 10-03-2011, 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bayoubear

Something is obviously changing either in the emitted light itself or in the ballast or even the latter causing the former.

i think we have officially passed the point of discovering causation here and in the realm of some botany masters candidate's thesis dissertation. while im sure we all are a bit curious about this the bottom line is after all the trial and error, manipulation of variables, etc etc etc its pretty clear: stick with tubes or traditional lighting schemes.

Sounds aboot right.

Quote:

one thing about the node length hypothesis, while a perfectly valid question, the fact bonsai went from rapid growth to none and actually damaged leaves in just a couple days might lead one to suspect more is going on.

Indeed, that would be correct as well. I would not expect the damaged leaves, just a stunting of growth.

Quote:

back on windowsill to see if it will recover. this poor plant, its already been thru hell.

Givin it up fer science.

Bayoubear · 10-16-2011, 09:46 PM

an update on 'bonsai' :

under one set of standard 48" tubes for two weeks.
healthy, happy, and growing fine* also went back to using standard tap water too.

(*as fine as to be expected under a single set of floro tubes anyway) i'll leave it in there till i redo my space later in the spring. major overhaul with HPS or LED's.

I guess I have confirmed to myself the definitive statement that cfl's are bad. This thread is way too long and convoluted to make sticky about cfl issues however it might be good to suggest to others facing similar troubles.

as an FYI in regards to standard houseplant issues, the immunox and bifenthrin mix seemed to rectify 99% of the issues brought about by the stress of the bad cfls. I still have a couple african aloes still sick but they grow so slowly i expect it a year before I can say for sure on them.

10-03-2011, 11:38 AM	#56
Bayoubear New Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: state of confusion Posts: 32	the one nicknamed 'bonsai' almost four weeks under 3 large cfls, 2 small cfls, pair of 48" tubes. in that time plant was 3/4s inch tall, vibrant green, zero growth. not even a week on a windowsill supplemented with one normal lamp reading light on a desk it grew to four inches tall and happy. 3 days back under one single large cfl zero growth. yellowing and damage on lower leaflets. sorry, my camera sucks, this pic is even taken in "closeup" mode. Attached Images

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09-30-2011, 08:10 PM	#52
Bayoubear New Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: state of confusion Posts: 32	the old setup is long gone, little bonsai is in there with a single cfl over it. if it lives, it lives, if it dies, oh well. foil wallpaper is gone as are the lighting shrouds. after talking with some of my EE buddies it looks like my waveguide analogy was pretty spot on. While ive never heard of cfls doing this to plants before till you mentioned it earlier,,, on paper it certainly makes sense and perfectly possible. If little bonsai makes it okay that would help to validate this theory. after going over my calendar of gibberish, what all ive done, it seems to boil down to this... I was effectively microwaving my plants. Not enough to outright kill them but enough to retard growth and stress them out to the point that when this bug hit my houseplants it was the final straw for them as well. Bonsai has spent a week in a new spot with new light and doing really well. Its back in the room under one large cfl as of today. we shall see...... hahaha the incandescent growlights, pure junk, only thing those are good for is sticking in a kids easy-bake oven.

10-03-2011, 09:53 AM	#53
Bayoubear New Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: state of confusion Posts: 32	bonsai crapped out under the cfl. the week on the windowsill it went nuts, a couple days back under the cfl it stopped growing and looks like all the rest that were suffering. After all this trial and error i think its safe to say the cfls are the problem. I dont think its lack of light, if that were the case one would expect them to be leggy and pale yellow. I blame the cfl itself. Sad, as if they had worked out the cfls would be an inexpensive and convenient way to go. Was using the large ones at that and wont fit standard household lamps and lighting fixtures. Guess ive got 20 years worth of light bulbs for my garage. hahahahaha Back to tubes for the mean-time.

10-03-2011, 11:11 AM	#55
Bayoubear New Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: state of confusion Posts: 32	bottom line, CFLs are bad, mmmmmkay. i dont remember the specifics but the ones i used were the largest i could find, coils about the size of a grapefruit. i found some of the standard household sized ones in a drawer and stuck them in there too. whats about killed bonsia is a big one. They worked fine for awhile then not. Something is obviously changing either in the emitted light itself or in the ballast or even the latter causing the former. i think we have officially passed the point of discovering causation here and in the realm of some botany masters candidate's thesis dissertation. while im sure we all are a bit curious about this the bottom line is after all the trial and error, manipulation of variables, etc etc etc its pretty clear: stick with tubes or traditional lighting schemes. one thing about the node length hypothesis, while a perfectly valid question, the fact bonsai went from rapid growth to none and actually damaged leaves in just a couple days might lead one to suspect more is going on. back on windowsill to see if it will recover. this poor plant, its already been thru hell.

10-16-2011, 09:46 PM	#58
Bayoubear New Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: state of confusion Posts: 32	an update on 'bonsai' : under one set of standard 48" tubes for two weeks. healthy, happy, and growing fine* also went back to using standard tap water too. (*as fine as to be expected under a single set of floro tubes anyway) i'll leave it in there till i redo my space later in the spring. major overhaul with HPS or LED's. I guess I have confirmed to myself the definitive statement that cfl's are bad. This thread is way too long and convoluted to make sticky about cfl issues however it might be good to suggest to others facing similar troubles. as an FYI in regards to standard houseplant issues, the immunox and bifenthrin mix seemed to rectify 99% of the issues brought about by the stress of the bad cfls. I still have a couple african aloes still sick but they grow so slowly i expect it a year before I can say for sure on them.