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View Poll Results: Shatter VS Budder

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  • Shatter

    214 89.54%
  • Budder

    25 10.46%
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  1. #41
    New Member Bhoris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hazelnut View Post
    ...just adding to the discussion, not necessarily agreeing with these statements.
    Sounds like the guys in that video sort of have it backwards. It seems as though they think the budder/honeycomb stuff towards the middle is better than the sappier looking stuff towards the edges. I suppose this could be true of the specific batch they're examining because we have no idea how it was extracted/purged and for how long. I suppose the clear stuff towards the edges could technically have a bunch of residual butane left in it that we just can't see, that could be why they're thinking the budder is better. If their stuff was purged properly however, shouldn't the clear sappy looking stuff be inherently better than the budder?

  2. #42
    wax is wacks hashcat's Avatar
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    those guys were hard to listen to.
    the only reason they are getting that caked up wax is because he is telling you to leave it in the vac for a few hours.
    well if you do that, your heat source will be well cooled off, your oil will be expanding because you didnt get all the tane out in the first place, and the oil will cool off as an expanded wax/honeycomb

    i wouldnt smoke either section of that nasty looking oil until it was reheated and vacced to a consistent texture

    i have been creating a new theory, that holds true with some of my friends

    whenever i dab out certain peeps with my sap, they choke the fuck up and usually respond "dude so much tane ouch!!! tastes like gas!!!"
    these people are usually vaping flavor/terp-less wax. i think the shock of terps is enough to convince them that there is something "extra" in the oil, and their stupidity leads them to believe it is butane

    the same logic then follows to when they smoke bummy flavorless wax, they dont taste a damn thing so "it must be pure!!!!"
    Last edited by hashcat; 10-31-2012 at 01:56 PM.
    toker420iluvweed

  3. #43
    Senior Member hazelnut's Avatar
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    well, i hate to defend those guys/that vid, but honesty and accuracy is the goal.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bhoris View Post
    ...It seems as though they think the budder/honeycomb stuff towards the middle is better than the sappier looking stuff towards the edges...
    they are there with it and have been tasting it and are sharing their findings. they have nothing to gain by misleading the viewer.

    Quote Originally Posted by hashcat View Post
    ... because he is telling you to leave it in the vac for a few hours.
    well if you do that, your heat source will be well cooled off, your oil will be expanding because you didnt get all the tane out in the first place, and the oil will cool off as an expanded wax/honeycomb...
    that would be a good theory except that he uses a ss stockpot on top of a griddle to keep heat/viscosity during vac. peep his other vids... if only to see what others do differently.

  4. #44
    Senior Member Detective Dank's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hazelnut View Post
    well, i hate to defend those guys/that vid, but honesty and accuracy is the goal.

    they are there with it and have been tasting it and are sharing their findings. they have nothing to gain by misleading the viewer.
    First of all, if they are dispensary owners, there's obviously a shitton to gain by misleading the viewer, but I don't have any evidence to support that...
    But regardless they have "everything" to gain by misleading themselves. Budder is easier to create, so people find excuses as to why it's "better" than sap or shatter, so they can feel cool/safe. I got into an argument with a guy who said that sap was sap because there was still liquid butane trapped in it, and that he had to whip it out, and that since budder forms when he's whipping, its more pure. It's painful (wrong) logic to deal with.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreams View Post
    Understanding WHY you do certain things is more important than understanding HOW you do them.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jackie Papers View Post
    Act like you're a carpenter and TC is a project: measure twice, cut once.
    Budder sucks.

  5. #45
    Senior Member hazelnut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Detective Dank View Post
    ...I got into an argument with a guy who said that sap was sap because there was still liquid butane trapped in it, and that he had to whip it out, and that since budder forms when he's whipping, its more pure. It's painful (wrong) logic to deal with.
    so what was your scientific arguement that led him to understand you were correct?

  6. #46
    Senior Member Detective Dank's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hazelnut View Post
    so what was your scientific arguement that led him to understand you were correct?
    I don't like arguing with my friends too much so I gave up. He still be whipping dawg.

    There are countless threads on here explaining why budder sucks, why budder in almost every case has butane trapped inside, and why sap and shatter are preferable.

    Budder = bho with much more surface are exposed. This is a result of one or more of the following;
    1. Improper temperature
    a) Too high - Terpenes bubble out at a fast enough rate to whip air into the bho. This is the least common of budders if you are not using a vac (there's been some recent evidence that this may contribute to Vac-Budder).
    b) Too low - Butane bubbles out really crappily/slowly, leaving gaps of air, moisture, and remaining butane behind which emulsifies the remaining BHO into the budder/wax/grease that is most commonly seen.

    2.) It was whipped. This simultaneously traps remaining butane by increasing the surface area which increases the viscosity of the BHO, making it much more difficult for butane to escape, while also simultaneously whipping air into the oil.

    Notice in all of these scenarios that budder is the result of something going wrong with the purging process. I sincerely do not understand the logic where someone sees glorious sap sitting on their pyrex and thinks it needs to be changed to a crumbly pile of crap.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreams View Post
    Understanding WHY you do certain things is more important than understanding HOW you do them.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jackie Papers View Post
    Act like you're a carpenter and TC is a project: measure twice, cut once.
    Budder sucks.

  7. #47
    Senior Member hazelnut's Avatar
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    i agree with you that budder doesnt look as good. but just because there are countless threads, etc. doesnt really mean much.
    you say its easier to make budder than shatter. i disagree. budder actually takes more time in the chamber and is another step. whipping is not up for debate as far as i am concerned. that is just foolish to me. the budder i refer to is made by going past the shatter stage. if the downsides are more rapid degradation, ugly looks, and harder to work with, then its just preference with a lack of sophistication imho. for the record, i prefer sappy shatter. but, i have had budder that was damn good too.
    i dabbed mid-type and totally lost my train of thought, but thats what i had before the oil took me over lol.
    Last edited by hazelnut; 10-31-2012 at 07:50 PM. Reason: high ass typos - passed/past

  8. #48

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    Using a vac to make budder is a waste of time and pointless IMO. You get the exact same result by just whipping. As far as I'm concerned, and this is just my own opinion, if I end up with budder, it means I fucked up my run somewhere and it really pisses me off when that happens. Thankfully it barely happens.
    Just Dab

  9. #49
    Senior Member Detective Dank's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hazelnut View Post
    i agree with you that budder doesnt look as good. but just because there are countless threads, etc. doesnt really mean much.
    you say its easier to make budder than shatter. i disagree. budder actually takes more time in the chamber and is another step. whipping is not up for debate as far as i am concerned. that is just foolish to me. the budder i refer to is made by going past the shatter stage. if the downsides are more rapid degradation, ugly looks, and harder to work with, then its just preference with a lack of sophistication imho. for the record, i prefer sappy shatter. but, i have had budder that was damn good too.
    i dabbed mid-type and totally lost my train of thought, but thats what i had before the oil took me over lol.
    The budder you're referring to is made by over heating, and losing precious terpenes and flavinoids, which contribute not only smell and taste, but also have effects on the high itself. Properly made sap or shatter from the same starting product will be more potent, more tasty, easier to deal with and safer because of the lack of butane. There is literally no advantage to budder from a consumer's standpoint.

    I'm sure you've had good budder, I have too, but it's a fact that sap or shatter made from the same product would have been even better.

    And yes, it does matter that there are countless threads decrying budder on one of the best collections of hash oil information on the web.

    I dont know how else to explain this bud. The amount of surface area exposed in say a gram of budder compared to a gram of sap is going to be significantly higher. As a result, budder tends to degrade at much faster rate, both in taste and potency. Budder often smells much stronger than sap/shatter as a result, but this is due to the volatile terpene and flavinoids being released rather than contained.

    Budder is unstable, Sap and Shatter are stable.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreams View Post
    Understanding WHY you do certain things is more important than understanding HOW you do them.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jackie Papers View Post
    Act like you're a carpenter and TC is a project: measure twice, cut once.
    Budder sucks.

  10. #50
    Senior Member hazelnut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Detective Dank View Post
    The budder you're referring to is made by over heating...(WRONG)There is literally no advantage to budder from a consumer's standpoint.(MOST people like to add it to joints)
    ...
    And yes, it does matter that there are countless threads decrying budder on one of the best collections of hash oil information on the web. (not if its hearsay and no scientific understanding is being conveyed. most things people hold as doctrine is not even cited)

    I dont know how else to explain this bud. (explain where the cloudy thing came from((just an example)))

    Budder is unstable, Sap and Shatter are stable.(agreed)

 

 

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